The 5.4 is even wider still. A second oval grommet from a salvage yard harness seals the harness as it passes through the firewall. These read the codes from the computer, and then you can check your manual or online for a solution. I really wanted to do the swap in an sn95 because a full bolt on 3v in the lighter sn95 chassis with a good suspension would be a nice strip car. Like with the Mustang in Black (see Chapter 2), this owner wanted to take full advantage of all the capabilities of the newer Cobra such as ABS, modern cruise control, and returnless fuel injection. If you get 360 at the wheels, then yeah you're probably close-ish to 450 at the crank, as 360 is 80% of 450. As a result, the old mechanical fuel pressure regulator and fuel tank return line were eliminated. This one should do a bit more than that seeing as it has a custom Marty Ochs tune and a. That is the main reason I was wondering about the feasability of the SOHC 3v. The factory air-intake tubing was used and mounted to the old battery area. It,s a 5.4 2v N/A and it fit rather very well into a 03+ crown vic. Some harness manufacturers require you to send in your old harness so they can reuse some of the original Ford connectors, which may be obsolete and not readily available (some that are available are not good quality). Most diagnostic tools now have ports to talk to computers and the Internet for even more capabilities. A Crown Victoria engine and a Mustang engine may have the same connector, but Ford changes the pinouts of the wires in the connector. An old swing-arm voltmeter could be used to read the pulses put out by the computer. https://www.patreon.com/nathansgarage?fan_landing=trueOk.the orange one was an F250 but it definitely is more F100-like now. These cars never came with a 3v. A forum community dedicated to all Ford Mustang owners and enthusiasts. The original Bosch intercooler pump is mounted on the underside of the original battery tray. _____ Best time 13.079 @ 105 1.8 60 . The EEC-V computer can be identified by the four rows of control pins in its main connector. A big change in fuel injection or camshafts may mean that a larger MAF meter is required, and the system cant be tuned without changing several items at once. If it's a 3 valve it will be straight. Yes it will breathe more than a 2v but you're taking away all the adjustability of the performance, so whats the point? Supercharger, Turbocharger, Nitrous Oxide & Water/Methanol Injection Engine Swaps 7.3L Gasoline V8 Engine 6.2L V8 5.0L Coyote EcoBoost (all engine sizes) Modular V10 (6.8l) Modular V8 (4.6L, 5.4L) Small Block V8 (221, 260, 289, 5.0/302, 5.8/351W) Big Block V8 - 385 Series (6.1/370, 7.0/429, 7.5/460) Ford V6 Dec 30, 2015 3v conversion is not possible at the time, the junkyard already sold the pcm and wiring harness. Get the body harness (the other 70 pin connector on the PCM) so you can cut that up to fit the crown vic. Come join the discussion about performance, racing, builds, modifications, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! Generated in 0.038 seconds in which 0.013 seconds were spent on a total of 15 queries. There are three levels of communication with the PCM, and these three levels require three different tools. Other than the aforementioned variable cam phasing and some solution for a manual throttle body. What're we looking at here? The pcm wont let the engine ping. Because of this, it can sometimes be very inefficient on fuel mileage. In 2015 the control box shape changed slightly, going back to a two-connector design. Paul him self told me he used the factory 4.6l 3v PCM took awhile to tune right and spliced the 6.2l harness to the 4.6l harness. I'd like to keep the stock gauges, and keep the stock column but I suppose i don't need to for the column. Yes, it works, but it's definitely not optimal suspension geometry for a lowered truck. A programmer manufacturer can give you a list of tuners in your area, or you can work with one over the Internet. The PCM harness comes out through the side panel and into the passengers side through the corner firewall. VCT allows the computer to advance or retard the camshaft timing via a control solenoid. Nuremberg (Nrnberg), Bavaria's second-largest city and the unofficial capital of Franconia, is an energetic place where the nightlife is intense and the beer is as dark as coffee. #3. Tuning an engine is a science, and most companies who sell the programmers work with trained tuners to maximize the performance and efficiency of the engine. Major changes to the engine may require a change to the size of the mass air meter. If you can't figure out which one you're looking at count the cam cover bolts. In the late 1990s Ford introduced the returnless fuel system that eliminated the mechanical fuel pressure regulator and fuel return line used since the 1980s. (with pics of course). why not use the computer and harness from the 6.2? JCG1 im going to stop using modular fords forum and use another forum. We will safeguard your e-mail and only send content you request. Free shipping. Because they all have the same height at the edge of the pistons, gotcha. The sensor on the left is from a mid-1980s 5.0 Mustang, but the one on the right is from a GM application and is used on most aftermarket speed density systems. Paul did tell me that it took awhile to tune the PCM from the mustang and he spliced a stock 6.2l and 4.6l 3v harness together. Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.5.9. It is usually found on the drivers side of the interior under the dash. Ok, compression could be an issue, could I get away with a tune and 93 pump gas? crown vic 3v swapcapricorn and virgo flirting. With the introduction of the Ford Control Pack, it has taken over as the best and easiest-to-use computer control system. Long blocks seem to be the same, as usual since Ford likes to stamp out the same thing to put in as many vehicles as possible. Seems like alot less hassle. Some of these systems are best controlled using a factory computer. With the 4.6L swap you are going to need to make motor mounts or purchase some aftermarket ones, get a high pressure fuel pump and all the plumbing that goes with it, an external transmission cooler as the one in the radiator is not good enough for the AODE/4R70W/4R75W family of transmission, a remote oil filter base as the current filter will i have benn told that factory 6.2 heads flow just over 300cfm. Strong engine, but you may have a struggle getting the torqshift to work properly. Still considering a swap myself. Ford F-100 / F-Series Crown Vic Swap Adjustable Motor Mounts for Ford FE v8 352/360/390/427. Several versions of the EEC-V system were developed and installed on Ford vehicles. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Yes and no. 2005 Cadillac CTS-V. - '96 Cobra 13.45 at 104.458 mph. Ford is very good at keeping the wiring colors consistent, but it doesn't really want you interchanging harnesses. The DTC follows the industry standard OBDII numbering system. This port allows you to read error codes, look at logged and live data, and change computer programs. New stock 1967 fuel tanks are being fabricated out of stainless steel, and this was the choice for modifications for the 2003 dual fuel pump. Ford also introduced a returnless fuel system for which the PCM regulated fuel pressure. I know that's a rough estimate for drivetrain power loss percentage, but short of dynoing the engine itself before installation it's as close as we can get to figuring out the crank number AFAIK. Trying to put 3V heads on your 2V block sounds like a recipe for endless headaches. A 5.4 should bolt in right in place of the 4.6. If you plan on using the factory computer and wiring, here are the requirements: It is best to have a complete donor car; it gets very expensive running back to your dealer every time you are missing a sensor. The shock towers were removed to make room for the wide DOHC heads. The SN-95 Mustang engine compartment is wider and longer than the first-generation engine compartment. Some sell pre-programmed tunes based on experience, but specific tunes are generally left to the experts. Just like stangaddiction said itll raise your compression ratio a lot and that high I wouldnt trust using a 93 octane tune with it being safe. Paul's saying they used a 2010 3v computer and harness (and a pro tuner described it as taking awhile to tune right - which would make me pause right there) but YOU are talking about using a 2 valve computer and harness from a 10 year old 03. hey JCG1 thanks for replying, yes the 6.2l has VVT but I was going to lock that out. As one of Bavaria's biggest draws it is alive with visitors year-round, but especially during the spectacular Christmas market. http://www.mylrs.com/blogs/lrs/archive/2009/01/12/Ford-Racing-4.6L-3-Valve-Fox-Body-Swap-Part-1.aspx, http://www.f150online.com/forums/v8-engines/398547-5-4-3v-swap-01-finally.html, Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.5.9. 9. open to all modifications to the 5 . The long blacks are the SAME. We promise not to use your email address for anything but exclusive updates from the Power Automedia Network. Electronics are also borrowed from the Cobra donor car and the stock EEC-V computer is re-flashed. The 4.6 liter engine was the replacement for the Windsor family of Ford V8's. For this, you need a scan tool, which costs more than the error code readers, depending on what level of features your scan tool possesses. Make sure that the system you choose is legal. Now the pistons are different and I believe won't allow the use of 2v heads. 2023 Power Automedia. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The IRS cradle was narrowed to make room for the 11-inch-wide rear wheels. The air conditioning is adapted to the original 1967 A/C box. Two of the biggest advantages to the modular engine are the amount of data you can retrieve from the computer system, and the ability to tune the engine through re-programming. The following errors occurred with your submission, Lightning, Harley-Davidson F-150, Roush F-150 & Saleen F-150, Conventional (Bumper Pull) Towing; Travel Trailers & Pop-ups, Toy Hauler Towing; Fifth Wheel & Bumper Pull, Flatbed, Car, Boat, Utility, Horse & Misc. It doesnt require drive-by-wire or control of variable cam timing, and there are plenty of aftermarket power adders to make the Terminator a good choice for a swap. i appreciatte any advice or sugestions, dont know thats a werid but unique swap the the 6,2 is a 3v engine ? In a nut shell, not all 4.6L engines are built the same. Great job steel. What kind of electronics would it take to get it to work in a Panther? (Photo Courtesy Ford Performance Parts). After using the TR-3650 for a few years and going back to the 4R70W during the winter, I really want to stick with the manual. With the radiator and intercooler plumbing, the empty space in front of the engine goes away very fast. i started a project my 03 crown vic i paid 1100 bucks for it at an auction. With the factory PCM, any time you change something on the engine, you need to reprogram the PCM to accommodate the change. Or wait for the 5.4 3v? 397.39whp & 374.19lbft! But as of now it's guesstamates and math, until some one does it. What do I need to swap for ECM, harnesses, and such? It plugs right into the DLC just the like pros use and can be used across multiple models and brands with licensing. Comes with everything to connect all factory sensors on the engine and transmission to your factory ECM plus wiring for the fuel pump, electric fan, and diagnostic port. I was just going to have a cam sprocket machined for the driver cam with the pip on it, a crank trigger wheel for the front and just use the engine harness PCM and sensors from the 4.6l that originally came in the car. Trusty Crown Vic 2-Valve Mod Motor For the 2005 to 2009 Ford Mustang 3-Valve 4.6 V8 Modular Engine with manual transmission, they have you covered here as well. Wiring diagrams for Ford can be purchased online at helminc. In the end, Patrick got exactly what he wanted: a Crown Victoria that looks & drives as if it came with a Coyote from the factory. They did this through a series of binary pulses that generated engine error codes with the Key On Engine Off (KOEO) test. Ford implemented the EEC-V computer to comply with the mandated On Board Diagnostic II (OBDII) industry standard. It,s not super fast as per todays standart but considering the weight of our car the low end torque production of the 5.4 makes our car a ton more fun to drive. As the cars became more complex, Ford needed new ways to bring circuits together. Cardone New Fuel Injection Throttle Body. Non-supercharged engines can mount over the front axle if desired. This EEC-V is from a 2003 Mustang Cobra, and it features an additional row of pins and the different keying from the EEC-IV unit. Ford changes the circuit pathways through the harnesses frequently. unfortunately im on workers comp waiting on my trial in October but I will have the car up and running before February next year. I think the only real issue is with one of the bolts on the timing cover not lining up properly, as you'll need to use your current timing cover. The 5.4 FAQ talks about the a 5.4 DOHC swap. All of these systems were the mass airflow type and used coil packs (modular engines do not use a distributor). Insight towards what to expect 3 Dimitrov67 3 yr. ago thanks man i'll take a look at it OlYeller01 3 yr. ago I thought it would be much simpler to use the 4.6l harness and use all of the sensors and stuff that way I can keep everything simple and straight forward that way all I had to do was have the PCM tuned/flashed for the bigger motor. The reason I ask is because I was reading a debat in another thread where the 5.4 makes more torque, due to its bigger displacement, but not necesarily more horsepower. If you want to use only the engine, an aftermarket computer may be your best option. Here are just a few that you need to be aware of: Gone are the days of using the old oscilloscope to analyze your engines performance. I will PM you my user name and forum. 14.46 @ 95.59 / 14.50 @ 95.91 tuned by Darrin at BC Automotive. Using the control pack requires you to convert your system back to a mechanical fuel regulator and return system. 11 psi whipple kit = bolt on 500+ hp 4.6L 3V V8. The three connector plugs easily identify the 2005 and up computers. . Mosley tribes Lyndel . Filed Under: Ford Engine Swaps, Ford Modular Engines, Ford Mustang, Ford Tech Tips, Ford Torino, 2023 DiY Ford. This build-in-progress is a 1967 Mustang coupe and it is receiving the full pro/street build out with a complete running driveline from a 2003 Ford Mustang Cobra donor car. Error codes are primarily usedfor emissions issues, and when your PCM senses a problem, it stores a DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Code) and turns on the check engine light on the dash. About Us - Whether you prefer a physical book. 3v conversion is not possible at the time, the junkyard already sold the pcm and wiring harness. Winsors have an 8 bolt crank and Romeos have a 6 bolt. The newer the engine, the more difficult it is to use a factory system. This owner wanted to retain stock control of the fuel pump and the returnless fuel system. Ive honestly always thought the same thing. You need to have some experience in wiring and making proper connections, and these aftermarket harnesses only control the engine and, if equipped, the transmission, and may not be capable of running any other components from your donor car. You need to buy a wiring diagram! This servo can advance or retard the intake camshaft to increase the performance of the engine. (something different) i have welded my rear doors shut and i shaved the rear door handles, the car looks realy good it has a real nice lean look and the stance with factory suspension looks fantastic. The gas pedal is an electronic device that sends signals to the throttle motor via wiring. The PCM controls the voltage applied to the pump and reads the pressure via a pressure transducer mounted on the fuel rail. Why even use the cam phaser lockout though? Thanks to the shared 34-inch framerail spacing, the Crown Vic assembly is easily adapted to the 1967 Ford F-100 . or a rotary out of an RX7.. All communications with the computer are done through the DLC (Data Link Connector), which is a standardized plug that is usually mounted under the drivers side of the dashboard. OBDII rules dictate a standard set of PIDs that all scan tools can read; Ford has some proprietary ones that may or may not be readable by non-Ford scan tools. Put both motors on an engine stand. 5.7 Hemi, 8 speed ZF trans 3.06 open rear 13.98 @ 99.2 mph 4740 lbs with driver!! About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features Press Copyright Contact us Creators . Ford 4.9 Throttle Body Upgrade2019 Ford F-250. From what I understand, you would benefit much more from a 4 valve vs. a 3 valve. idk really. I would imagine with tuning it has to be good for some low buck HP. The factory system allows you to use and control components such as automatic transmissions, ABS units, and fuel systems without extra controllers. (something different) i have welded my rear doors shut and i shaved the rear door handles, the car looks realy good it has a real nice lean look and the stance with factory suspension looks fantastic. also check out the 2010-2014 mustang forum up top and check out that new pic with a 6.2l in a 2005 stang I loaded up. With 390 hp, the 20032004 Terminator engines continue to be a popular option when making a modular engine conversion. What this does is that it allows you to swap a 4.6 3V from a wrecking yard ($2K engine along o. I doubt many members on here will do it 11 psi whipple kit = bolt on 500+ hp 4.6L 3V V8. This information is useful not only for drag racers with laptops; familiarity with the capabilities of your engines computer system and ways to optimize your engine swap will help you meet the goals for your project. Keep us posted if you go for it! Holley and FAST both sell speed density systems that will work with the modular engine and have specific Coyote harness converters to run these engines. The first generation of the Modular V8, to be more precise, a 4.6-liter engine with fuel injection from a Crown Victoria body-on-frame sedan. Some manufacturers still sell speed density systems, and they use a Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor to measure the pressure inside the intake manifold. Manage Preferences - The computer calculates the amount of fuel to be delivered to the engine based on air volume, air temperature, manifold pressure, and exhaust gas mix. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. The major advantage is vct and Im not sure if its worth it. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Once you have chosen an engine, it is time to select a computer and wiring harness to control the engine. harness all at once. An aftermarket stainless-steel stock tank was modified to accept the 2003 fuel pump assembly and locate the fuel pump at the correct height. VI-VCT used on the Coyote engines does the same for the exhaust cam and eliminates the need for an EGR system and improves emissions. 5.4s were made (in my opinion) to have 4V heads on them (or TFS heads, now go finish your build bondfreak!) And maxing out the cam phasers pretty much defeats the whole purpose of the 3v setup. Come join the discussion about performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! The exhaust features a custom 212-inch pipe system with off-road X pipe running from the stock Cobra manifolds. There are other ways to improove the hp rating than trying to fit 3v heads with an intake on a 5.4. For Ford F100 F-100 Crown Vic Steel Front Pair Suspension Swap bracket kit. they actually have forum users that don't talk **** and are friendly to people. 07 GT Tungsten Gray, 02 GT Oxford White, 09 Crown Vic P71, 87 Mercury Grand Marquis, 17 Gt Black. Error codes are primarily used, HOW TO SWAP FORD MODULAR ENGINES INTO MUSTANGS, TORINOS AND MORE. Here are some of the bigger hurdles to consider if using a Ford wiring harness and computer. The location of components can be a disadvantage and often an obstacle with the factory system. Ford used this computer system throughout the 1980s and EEC-V replaced it in 1994. This also allowed the T-56 shifter to protrude into the original shifter hole without any modifications. The jump to EEC-VI and improvements such as drive-by-wire technology and Variable Cam Timing (VCT) came in 2005. With more and more information being stored by the computer systems, one thing that comes in handy is the freeze frame data. The independent rear suspension is already equipped to run the ABS. Archive - Unlike other makes where the basic scheme doesnt change much, the Ford system has changed considerably over the years and has had at least four base configurations as of this writing. There are low profile aftermarket aluminum manifolds for . The biggest challenges to installing the engine are the width and height. as well i will be making me a sheet metal intake manifold for it since no one makes any induction pieces for the 6.2 i was wondering if any one could help me on this. About the time the VI-VCT engines came out, Ford improved the PATS system to the point that aftermarket performance tuners found it difficult to bypass the system. Nuff said. Zlib compression enabled. Dans External Relay Harness. A simple error code reader can be had for little cost at most auto parts stores. To fit it in the truck we got a front frame clip from a wrecked crown Vic police car with heavy duty suspension.and attached it to the original chassis and boxed original frame and 9 inch rear end. Black_Chrome: If only I had a mercOh wait, its still sitting out at the farm frown "This holiday season give that special woman in your life something she deserves. Modern cars have more like 50, and they are split into the fuse block and power distribution box, depending on how much current they carry. She could easily make a killer sleeper car. Written by Dave Stribling and Posted with Permission of CarTechBooks. Imo its not worth it unless you get the frpp 3v swap kit and even then youre only at 300hp or so at the crank. This harness contains wiring to the MAFS, Cooling fans, HEGOs, etc as well as the critical power and ground leads. I like the idea of a 3v over a coyote because I like how people **** on 3v's now that the coyotes came out but its still a great motor with less displacement and headflow. so if they are canceling the variable timing it will make less than 300 hp, the variable timing is the key to make 300 hp . The knock sensor will pull a [censored] load of timing before that happens. You can choose between an aftermarket or the factory system that originally came with your engine. To get the pro/street look the factory fender flares have been widened 112 inches in the back and 1 inch in the front. The only other fitment issue was the IAC solenoid, which was mounted on top of the supercharger intake. but i have a few issues. Read an interesting article about the Modular Series of engines and interchangeability. Go here to check out what weve been up to. He currently owns a '95 Corvette, '76 Cadillac Seville, '99 LS1 Trans Am and big old Ford Van. Will it fit? . 4v? See if they can dyno the car afterwards so we can see what kind of numbers you get. The EEC-IV computer module is easily identified by its three rows of pins on the main plug. For a nice primer on hopping-up Mod Motors from our sister publication EngineLabs, go here. Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.5.9. Go here to check out what weve been up to. VCT and the improved PATS system make using the factory wiring more difficult in most cases. The firing order for 2011-2019 Ford 'Coyot' 5. That's the cam phasing + 6 speed auto. In a returnless fuel system, the PCM uses this pressure transducer mounted on the fuel rail to measure the fuel pressure at the engine. Circuits from the engine area and interior terminate here, and if you plan on using the original harness, you need to get all of the special items like this. However, the newer the engine and vehicle, the more difficult it is to use the factory components. Sorry 450 hp is modded coyote territory. Or swap out for a 4.6 3v? The valves open towards the edges of the pistons and the edges are not dished. Ford made it increasingly difficult to mix and match the wiring harnesses because of various options on the vehicle. Using the original harness allows you to run options such as the original ABS unit from the 2003 Cobra. Ford introduced variable camshaft timing starting in 2005. About 1999, the Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS) was improved, and installing aftermarket components such as instrumentation became difficult. Its larger pins and unique plug keying identify the EEC-IV computer. Some aftermarket companies use speed density systems to make big horsepower because they are easier to tune and do not have some of the restrictions of mass air. Buying every sensor or component from Ford can be very expensive. The hydroboost from the Cobra was mounted to the original 1967 brake pedal, and a hydraulic clutch conversion from Modern Driveline works with a McLeod throwout bearing. but on the down side youll have a car bolt pattern on the front but i guess you could have the rotors redrilled. Error codes and data logging help determine what components may need attention, and most systems now work over Wi-Fi. i bought a 6.2l short block and heads for it. this is the GRM forum where small engines rule, so i'll be the one to suggest the turbo 2.3/T5 combo from the Thunderbird Turbocoupe. Easy?!?!?! How much work will it take to fit a 4V 5.4 under a stock Panther hood. You would have to mess around with lots of things to make it work so it all comes down to how much is your time worth vs the end results. Privacy Statement - but later on in the months I decided to just work with what I have already. New diagnostic equipment scans live and stored data, graphs operating conditions, and even recommends a plan to correct the problem. PATS anti-theft is defeated through ECM reprogramming, but we offer a solution for that as well.. These computers are all mass airflow design, so they must use an airflow meter to measure the amount of air going into the engine. Ford F-100 / F-Series Crown Vic Swap Adjustable Motor Mounts for Chevy LS 4.8L/5.3L/6.0L . Contact Us - If you want to drop a Blue Oval Mod Motor into your Mustang, T-Bird, or Rod and keep it all FoMoCo, Ron Francis Wiring has you covered.